Popularity of DREAM Act begins to wane
The DREAM Act has long been a favorite of people in the movement. I had immediate questions when I found out that there is a military option for undocumented youth, but no work or community service option. I have explained my concern about this on numerous occasions, and I’ll leave that for another time.
However, others seem to have new, emerging concerns about DREAM. Last week a stalwart of Houston’s community activism wrote a piece about the possibility of DREAM causing a split in the movement and dampening commitment to a comprehensive bill. (No names on the author because I’m not sure if it was an open letter).
Additionally, Stace Medellin of DosCentavos.net has also written that he is no longer as eager to see a stand alone DREAM Act, since it might give some Brown Cred to Republicans who don’t deserve it.
It will not be a novelty to see a movement who has fought for years and has garnered some significant victories to demand more than what it initially did. I hope that this is where we are headed.
I write this with no offense intended to my friends who are fighting for a stand-alone DREAM Act. They exemplify dedication and will. I just think that we should not sell ourselves short.
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This is a joke. You cite two instances where this is the case, while major organizations are shifting to the DREAM Act as a standalone bill. Congreso just came out in support of it as a standalone bill.
I oppose the military provision as well, and have organized against it every chance I have gotten. At the same time, it pisses me off when people bring up these concerns just as the DREAM Act has a chance of passing.
So should we just bring it up when it has no chance of passing? Don’t follow your logic. You oppose the military provision, but if voicing concerns might kill the proposal, we should just keep our mouths shut?
The DREAM Act has a great chance of passing this year. Let’s get it to the floor, try to re-add the community service provision and strip the military provision. Try to get your Senator to support the DREAM Act without the military provision if you can, if you can’t, as him to support the DREAM Act as is.
I don’t think voicing concerns will kill the proposal, it just angers me when people oppose it because of the military provision when they haven’t done any organizing to get a single Senator to support their position that it should be stripped.
Shame on you guys. Its also a shame that you have Subcomandante Marcos in your header and dare speak for the people and a movimiento. There are undocumented students conducting an indefinite hunger strike in NYC demanding a stand alone dream act willing to put their lives on the line because they are frustrated of this broken immigration system and you are here pontificating on behalf of them. Recognize your privilegios and step back to let the undocumented speak for themselves.
Too few immigrant students would benefit from the legal right to attend college or join the military. The large majority of immigrant students gain nothing from the Dream Act. It is first and foremost a means of recruiting immigrant students into the armed forces of the U.S., and that helps to spread more racism, fascism and imperialism around the globe more than anything else.
Subcomandante Marcos fought against imperialism, and US intervention through trade. I don’t understand how my position does him a disservice. I also don’t understand how I have remained diplomatic in my disagreement with the CURRENT POPULARLY PROMOTED version of the DREAM act, only to be met with slurs and nastiness. These are not the first comments that suggest that I have no place having an opinion. In the end, if DREAM passes, I will congratulate my friends who have pushed so hard for it and have contributed so much to the overall movement. But for right now, I just think it is too narrow, as Ruben pointed out.
I would support it even with the military provision, if there were a work and community service provision. This is a compromise for me, but if our people have a choice of work, community service, military or college, these are attainable for all.
Ruben, you summed up a great deal of my positions.
Ruben and Hector,
You have to understand the anger that migrant youth feel when people stand and say that you shouldn’t be legalized now because of where we ideologically stand. It is my feeling that part of the reason it has taken us so long to get a win in the migrant rights movement is because folks with the privilege of documentation have been making all of the political decisions while unauthorized migrants are forced to languish in the shadows.
With the way migrant youth are stepping up and leading the movement right now, it’s hurtful when supposedly pro-migrant folks like yourselves don’t throw you’re full support behind us. Even more hurtful when you come out with public statements like this without even discussing it with us privately. It’s a lot harder to say you don’t support the DREAM Act when you have an undocumented youth staring you right in the face, or talking to you right on the phone, who would benefit from getting legalized under it right now.
The DREAM Act is much more than a piece of legislation, it’s about the activism surrounding it. It’s about the migrant youth movement and the amazing energy we’ve shown. If we pass the DREAM Act, it’s just the beginning of a larger pro-migrant revolution.
Kyle, I don’t understand how you are positioning yourself as the legitimate voice of migrant students. I especially don’t know how you can begin to tell me what I must understand. I don’t have any interest in discussing this privately with you. I have no interest in what you might offer to me. I suggest you listen to Malcolm X’s message to the grassroots before you start throwing around terms like revoultion.
I deeply disagree with the “stand alone” Dream Act strategy for just immigration reform. It creates a divided strategy that places the interests of less than one percent of the undocumented above the needs of 99 plus percent of the undocumented.
I respect the great sacrifices that the undocumented students are making, but not their goal. If they were on hunger strike, getting arrested and walking thousands of miles for the legalization of all, it would be a different matter.
It seems that political expediency is the driving interest to get the Dream Act passed now. There has been a decision of the “stand alones” to grab what they can get now rather than putting in more time and efforts into building a strong movement for just immigration reform for all immigrants.
The student movement reflects the overall movement in its zeal and increasing aggressiveness. In the last month, over 30 persons have been arrested in LA, NY and Chicago for immgiration reform for all. The situation in AZ has created the conditions for increasing a stronger movement overall. Thousands marched on May 1. More actions are taking place each day.
I too can ask: Have the “stand alones” consulted the 99 Plus % to see if they agree that legalization of the majority should wait until sometime in the future? Or isn’t this the time to redouble our efforts to build the immigrant rights movement together and not weaken it by dividing its driving force of justice into separate pieces of a legislative strategy that will ultimately benefit only a few.
The youth of the Civil Rights Movement in the 50′s were arrested, marched and died not just for their own self-interest, but in defense of the dignity and rights of all. So why shouldn’t we aske the same of of our youth? And why shouldn’t the 10 million also ask this of undocumented students?
Yes, many of us are priviledged, but in relation to the 10 million who are undocumented, so are undocumented students. Even tactics used by students evidence this privelege–some have the time and energy to walk miles while many undocumented immigrants, including young ones, must work to support themselves and their families; some can utilize cyberspace to articulate their views in English to media and places of powers, while many lack language or cyber skills to assert their message effectively in the manner that is valued by this society; some may even choose to deny themselves food to advance their interests politically, while others who have lost jobs or work sporadically or are part of the working poor suffer chronic hunger and malnutrition everyday in the midst of the worst job situation in recent decades.
Privilege then is not the issue–but who is willing to continue constructing an ever-expanding movement of social justice for all sectors, including all undocumented immigrants who are the most vunerable. Who is willing to stand side by side to “take” what is justly deserved by so many immigrants who daily contribute and sacrifice for our society? Who among citizens, permanent residents and the undocumeted (those labels hurled upon us by the powerful who have designed the schemes of rule through oppression, marginalization, dehumanization and exclusion) are working to stick together for the fight?
This is a fight for justice locally and globally. It is all our fight. This is a fight to create a better world and above all, to promote, protect, defend and exercise our rights as equal human beings.
Who is willing to push forward, not for the benefit of a few, but for the benefit of all?
Maria, I applaud you for taking this strong stance. It is not a poltically easy position to take in “the movement.” So I thank you for sticking your neck out. This is what your leadership has been about all these years.
I’m really sorry to hear that you have no interest in what I have to offer you, Hector. I almost gave my life for this movement, and I’ve dedicated the last five years of my 24 years on this Earth to migrant rights. I’ve taken on the federal government and stopped deportations. If you don’t feel that’s enough to even communicate with me privately, that’s a real lack of respect.
I do not profess to be the legitimate voice of migrant students, but I do identify as a migrant and I am accountable to the migrant youth movement which is lead by unauthorized youth. Who are you accountable to, Hector? And when I ask that I’m not asking about theoretical nameless masses but actual people.
Maria, you’re argument is one that migrant youth hear time and time again, that we’re being “selfish.” That’s not what this is about, Maria. This about undocumented migrants, for the first time, coming into the public sphere and taking control of their lives. Regardless of what you say, Hector, that is revolutionary. Undocumented migrants are speaking and organizing in the public sphere for the first time in U.S. history, and folks like you are calling them “selfish.” You think migrant youth are going to stop fighting for their family members when their legalized? You think I’m going to stop fighting for migrant rights? You’re wrong.
You can appeal to theoretical masses of people all you want, Maria, but I’m accountable to real people, and I make real change on the ground, day in and day out. My friend just got detained on the way back to Boston, I’m helping to stop his deportation. I’m up in Maine, helping to stop the deportation of another Guatemalan youth.
Where are both of you? I ask that not in a condescending manner. It could very well be you’re doing excellent work on the ground, too, and outside of cyber space which makes digital slaves out of too many of us. That’s why I ask that we communicate privately. Not because I want to stifle free speech, but because I want to genuinely get to know you rather than bicker in online forums which lends itself to misunderstanding and negative feelings.
I came out strong against what Hector had to say here, because I believe it’s a real lack of respect to make decisions about where you stand on peoples lives without first consulting with them. But we’ve all stated our positions, now, and I’d very much appreciate it if we spoke to each other and got to know each other rather than kept attacking each other.
Folks can get in touch with me at kyle at citizenorange dot com whenever they’d like.
Kyle, are you a migrant or do you “identify as a migrant?” This is an important point. Please answer. Are you one of these Johnny come lately white liberals (who started in 2006) who go around telling people of color what they “need to understand,” chiding them about their position of priveldge, while they recount their own days at Harvard? Are you one of these people that I write about in my subsequent post? If you are not, please excuse me, but the more I read from you, the more I believe that you are one or at least act like one. You are a migrant advocate, not a migrant from another country, right?
You are right in one of your points. You don’t know about me or to whom I am accountable. I deal with what you consider migrants in different capacities several times a day. I don’t consider this a fight for migrants. Rather I consider this a fight of a colonized people. This is not an ideological stance, but a very tangible reality. I listen to people everyday who would prefer not to be passed on so that college students can achieve a professional position.
You probably don’t come into contact with this group of my people, if you hang around Harvard and are busy being “flown out to New York, Washington D.C., and San Diego to discuss new media strategy with migrant advocacy organizations,” as you write on your blog Agent Orange.
Please! Save your moral high ground for the people that you have been hired to represent or consult or come tell the people on Little York in Houston, Texas that the rights of college grads are more important to their own. Excuse them for working too much to be as active as the DREAM contingent. Excuse them for being too frightened that they might not be able to feed or provide shelter to their babies. Keep telling yourself that this is a fight over ideology so that you may sleep at night.
Kyle, this is you on the Harvard Gazette? http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/04.27/15-immigrate.html
and you’re questioning people’s privileged status?
And you purport to tell me what I “need to understand?” Do you do your blog from your family farm or is that too uncool? Yeah. No need to answer the prior questions. I understand where you’re coming from now.
to the DREAM ACTivists above:
Keep fighting for your rights, this is YOUR lives you are fighting for and the “experts in immigrant rights” need to quit telling students what to do or not to do. Honestly it is elitist and unless all those who oppose a stand alone DREAM Act are willing to chain themselves to the ICE van every time a student gets caught and deported then they need to just let them fight their own fight. I support immediate passage of a stand alone DREAM Act because for the past 10 years students have been told to “wait” and sadly many of the students who started fighting for the DREAM Act are now aging out and will become ineligible.
To everyone else:
So what if military service is an option? some students might like that with or without DREAM Act, some don’t. 6 years to complete 2 years of community college is doable for MOST immigrant youth and if you think it is not then you are just underestimating the intellect and intelligence of immigrant students and it is offensive.
Hector, Maria…
I know you both, you both know me. I also know Kyle and I also know lamarichola… none of these people are hired to come and make comments here. Both of these people are DREAM advocates, both of these people advocate tirelessly for dreamers, because they see our struggle, they live our struggles with us across campuses, when we have conversations, when they really see us in our worst moments. These people organize, these people work. I know them!
It really saddens me to read this and once again proves how Houston is totally wrong when it comes to controlling the ‘immigrant market’ yes, lets call it what it is. If immigrant reform was passed today some people would no longer have a job in the city, and we all know that. Some of us don’t get paid to advocate for the dream act, and with this i am not saying that you get paid Hector, because i know that you care; we just don’t see eye to eye on some things. However, you cannot keep doing this to DREAMers, you just have no right to do this. ALL Of you. Do you live in my shoes? Do you really know what it is like to be undocumented?
I have lived first hand in Houston the fuckedupness (that’s what it is, lets be honest) of organizing for the DREAM Act and a lot of immigrant leaders controlling and overshadowing DREAMers. It is impossible. You all know this, so be true to yourselves, whoever understands and relates to this, you know who you are. This is exactly what is going on all around, DREAMers are being shut down and called selfish, but who is being the selfish one, really?
Yes, DREAM isn’t perfect, but it is all that we have and we are going to fight for it, and you cant take that away from us, you are supposed to be our allies.
Don’t you guys think that i want my parents and uncles to be legalized? OF course!!!! I do, we all want immigration reform, but we are not being selfish. DREAM has a real good chance of passing this year and this is just the beginning. We need the DREAM Act so that we can go for the whole cake, but you need to help us and stop destroying us with posts like this.
With all respect.
-Julita
Guillermo. Con todo respeto: insisting that poor people be included is not elitist.
Julita, I take no issue with you disagreeing with me. Respectful disagreement is healthy. I have lost much more than I care to admit by taking this stance. Perhaps one day I’ll be able to explain. Only a handful might know what I am talking about on this point, and they probably aren’t reading.
It’s really kind of a hard thing to get our hands around. As people we know and care about are saying the same thing about each other. Selfish? Elitist? Ideological? Both of sides seem to use the same arguments, and I know you, and you know me, and we know most of the other people involved, and I really don’t think this of you or most of the other people I have known for years. I really don’t think that you consider me to be a selfish person.
I think what is really happening is that some really good people have some strong disagreements about what is best. In the end, if we disagree respectfully, this will all be resolved one way or the other and we should continue on our path toward justice. If DREAM passes, then I will congratulate you all and celebrate for those who benefit (even though now I am sure that I will be celebrating on my own). But until that time, I have to speak to what is best for all of our people.
I DON’T know Kyle. I just know he came on my site talking in a condescending tone, and well…
Anyway, I have family who don’t have college degrees who need papers too, and well…
I don’t hope to “destroy” you, Julita. Man, I was so inspired by that first march that called about 7,000 people out. That was historic. The last thing that I would want to do is destroy you. But asking me to leave out so many people, and saying that I have no right to look out for the most vulnerable, well…
Anyway, my biggest hope is that “we” can come out of this intact, and continue building a coalition hacia la justicia.
I see people daily who don’t know how to write in any language. I am not exaggerating. These are our people that I am talking about.
It is the hope of all of us Hector. I want to have immigration reform, i want to give real access to our people. i want the things that you want, but we need to do this together.
Let me have access, let dreamers have access so that we can get in and fight for our parents, mis tios, the people that you talk to every day in the northside. We are not being elitist, we don’t want to get ours and then we are done.I know all those people that don’t know how to write in our language, some of them are in my family too.
We are not asking to leave all those people out, it isn’t about that. That is what is wrong, if we keep doing this to each other no vamos a llegar a ningun lugar. We are not selling ourselves short; we need people to help us.
We are raising our own voice and ‘they haven’t hear our thunder yet.’
Affinity – Sympathy marked by community of interest.
Various people join the movement as a result of some sort of affinity to the movement. Some join the movement because they are young undocumented students. Some join the movement because they are undocumented workers. Some join the movement because they can not sponsor their undocumented same sex partner. Some join the movement because their world includes undocumented neighbors and friends.
We might not join the movement for the same specific reason but our end goal is the same. Let’s not weaken our movement by putting someone down. Let’s strengthen our movement by pushing someone up.
We are all going to fight this battle in different ways because we all have different affinities. This battle has multiple fronts and we need everyone to move in their respective front so that we can conquer victoriously.
I support a just Comprehensive Immigration Reform that includes everyone, but I will not stop anyone if they are already close to the finish line. On the contrary, I’ll push them, but I’ll also pull the others that need to reach the finish line.
Now, let’s use all of this energy and channel it into positive energy for our movement. There are many unregistered pro-immigrant potential voters that need to be registered. There are many registered voters that need to actually vote. There are many voters that need to learn about the pro-immigrant movement. There are many pro-immigrant voters that need to know how to be a volunteer. There are many pro-immigrant volunteers that need to learn how to be pro-immigrant advocates and leaders. There are many pro-immigrant advocates and leaders that need to reach out to those unregistered pro-immigrant potential voters…
Let’s not waste our time telling the DREAMers what they should or shouldn’t do…. Let them take control of their front and run with it. In the mean time, let’s work on our front that includes all. We need a lot of help on that front, but let’s not depend on the DREAMers because they have their own battle. We need to recruit our own advocates and that means that we also need to persuade those undecided voters to join our movement.
Fortunately, the DREAM Act is increasing their movement, and they just got another Co-Sponsor here in Texas. Let’s work on more Co-Sponsors for CIR ASAP. Let’s work on an actual Senate Bill for CIR.
With that said, I need to go back to organizing… I’m behind in the number of advocates that we require. I’m behind in the number of groups that support immigration reform. I’m behind in the number of letters written and phone calls made. I’m behind in the number of visits to Sen. Hutchison’s office. I’m behind in the number of cosponsors. If the DREAMers have a June deadline, let them fight for it. Our deadline for CIR has been pushed between elections and the December Holidays. I’m afraid we’re running behind in the number of support for that deadline, but we can catch up. Let’s work to reach our deadlines; not to deter one another.
In peace & solidarity,
- Victor
I am an immigration attorney and I work in Arizona. I was born in California. I acknowledge my privilege and I’ll check that at the door. I also acknowledge that I haven’t read the various versions of the Dream Act. I work with migrants at the very end of the Removal process. I don’t do Corporate immigration law, and I have only met with one person who was about to naturalize. I meet with people who will be removed in 60 days to remote parts of Guatemala and El Salvador where the Mara Salvatrucha rules, and where there’s no water or electricity. Congress and the courts have closed nearly all avenues of hope. I feel like I’m grasping at dust floating in the area to try to compile something substantial in order to keep people united with their families in the U.S. At such times I’d be happy if any version of the Dream Act were passed just so I’d have something to keep a person here. When my clients are removed I don’t know if they will ever see their loved ones in the U.S. again. And I don’t know if they will walk through the 110 degree desert tomorrow just to try to return. My hope is that some version of the Dream Act is passed and that infighting doesn’t destroy it.
Well it seems you have judged me without even having given me the opportunity to speak to you, Hector. Fortunately more capable and honorable people like Julita and Victor have stepped in to make my argument for me.
Yes, I am a migrant, who spent 18 years of his life in Guatemala. I lived in conditions most people in the U.S. don’t even understand, and I’ve lost more friends and community members to the violence in Guatemala than I care to remember. Right now, I’m spending myself into oblivion on credit cards (which I acknowledge most undocumented folks don’t have) to try and pass the DREAM Act. A friend of mine, Eric Balderas, was just detained coming out of Texas, and I’m also working to get a Guatemalan out of detention in Maine.
I acknowledge my privilege. I always will. But as soon as this starts getting into a fight about who is more privileged is when we all lose. Privilege should not turn allies into enemies.
I went after you, Hector, because I feel it’s disrespectful to make decisions about people’s lives without even consulting them. My point has been made by myself and others on this page. I’m done arguing. If I offended you beyond that initial disrespect that I saw on this page, I apologize. I also want to say that I appreciate your latest post describing where you’re coming from.
Again, now that the point has been made, I would very much like to discuss this with folks on this page on the phone. Digital mediums dehumanize people in similar ways that the U.S. seeks to dehumanize migrants. Rather than put my phone number out in cyber space, I’d appreciate it if folks drop me a line at kyle at citizenorange dot com.
Also,
I think this article does a really good job of acknowledging the problems with the DREAM Act, while being respectful of migrant youth:
http://www.comdsd.org/article_archive/StillWaiting-StillDREAMing1-10.html
Much Love,
Kyle
Fair enough. Apology accepted. Perhaps we both judged too quickly.
I have put forth a fundamental difference in strategy. I do not apologize for my position. I lay my views. I would be arrogant to think that my views in any way change the course of actions already in motion on the “stand alone” of the DREAM ACT approach. I share my thoughts based on over 40 years on the front lines of social justice and an accumulated experience on the workings of power and social movements in the human rights and immigrant rights movement. As a youth, I too challenged notions held by my elders. As colleagues in the movement,however,I believe in open and transparent discussions amongst us. The course of events have made private conversations a moot point. Actions of the “stand aloners” is public and a growing movement.Ultimately, which strategy will more accuarately predict the course of just immigration reform will be determined by how effective we are in muscling our collective power to challenge entrenched, corrupt power structures to change immigration policies, practices and laws that hurt millions currently. All I know is that the piecemeal approach to immigration reform in the last twenty years has given relief to a few (each time, a few more, like drops from a spiget), but has allowed a draconian system of heightened suffering for millions in our society to expand a flourish like a flash flood of injustince. Without resolve to end this draconian system for all it excludes, marginalizes and dehumanizes, it will continue to take our communities hostage, deteriorating our rights significantly, if not totally. Conditions for all–citizens, legal or undocumented immigrants–are worse. Relief for a few will not alter this reality significantly. In the final analysis, the fight for just immigration reform will still be in front of us whether or not the DREAM Act passes. So which ever road one takes, for the millions of undocumented immigrants and allies, the struggle continues, and it is a struggle that still has a long road ahead with no “quick fixes” to alleviate the frustration and anxiety which leads us to take divergent paths. All of us together still have a full agenda that will demand our commitment and dedication to justice, equality and human dignity in our communities and throughout our world.
I did want to clarify that as I understand this sudden “stand alone” call:
*The motor of this movement are the students and allies. The active tactics currently moving forward are loud and clear.
*The direction are the well-funded national organizations who need “a victory” to justify their funding. The other part of the direction is given by sectors of the Democratic Party who need to keep the Latino vote for the November elections. The changes being made in the legislation to gain support from different political actors in Congress is evidence of this. It is in the hands of these operatives and not the students or allies.
In the meeting of the Latino National Congress, this is the way the vote divided. Students, strong foundation driven national organizations and individuals and organizations tied to the Democratic Party argued and voted for the “stand alon” strategy. Arguing and voting against this measure were small, self-reliant struggling community-based organizations that rely on many, many undocumented immigrant volunteers to fuel their work for justice and to whom it would be difficult to explain why their needs were being postponed for those of the college educated.
This division of strategy for legislative relief has surfaced time and time again in the last twenty-four years. It is always about political expediency of “what we can get” inside the Belway as opposed to how do we invest in building a stronger movement in our communities to “get what we need.”
For me, strategy discussions have forced a definition of where we stand in the fight for social justice and our understanding of our roles. But most importantly, they bare our priorities in actions in front of our communities. Ultimaletly, it is our community who will hold us accountable.
In the end, all of us will have to justify (or spin as they say) the work around and passage of the stand alone bills-DREAMERS and AgJobs–as “small victories.” Some because they are true believers; a few who see their individual needs resolved; others to say they were the ones who “won” them; more to sustain and increase foundations grants to continue to feed their institutional presence with the power structure, and others, the vast majority, who had no control over any of these processes, to keep morale high amongst the millions of undocumented everywhere for the continuing fight still faced under the duress of increased hardships, daily deportations, exclusion and discrimination.
However, for me, I kept hoping a group of undocumented students would stand above the fray and say–we will not be used in powerplays and we will remain firm until all deportations cease and temporary relief will be won for all–I am wrong. I kept hoping that a group of undocumented students would say–yes we will follow other youth who sacrifice “todo para todos, nada para nosotros.”
Saul Alinisky was right–self-interest is the key single factor that moves people to acheive concrete, measurable change. The “dreamers” of profound social transformations do so on principles of justice, equality and dignity for all irregardless of the sacrifice to themselves and even sometimes, to thier own existence.
None of us measure up to those who have given thier lives so that others can enjoy the freedoms and liberties we hold today. So the movement again shows its divesity and often times, contradictory experssions of what we concieve as the road to justice.
Maria, I did a post a while back about JIFM and their decision to endorse CIR over a stand alone. I know that there is some dispute as to who represents JIFM. I don’t know more about that dispute, as the details were not share with me. For what its worth, here is the post.
http://www.ournewanahuac.net/jifm-and-others-target-dream-act-for-comprehensive-immigration-reform/2009/07/24/
It’s interesting to hear your take from the Latino National Congress. I wasn’t there but I can see it playing out that way from the organizations I know where there. I just want to say, though, that the dynamic you describe there isn’t the dynamic I’ve felt nationally and in other places. In other places migrant youth had to fight against the well-funded organizations / foundations tooth and nail.
http://www.lafronteratimes.com/2010/06/rifa-vs-dream-movement/
The way I see it is that these organizations want CIR so that they can keep moneyed interested like business and labor unions all pushing and donating for the same things.